Tortilla con Sal, 27 de octubre 2019
Interview with Dr. Agustín Velloso Santisteban of the University of Distance Education in Madrid.
Dr. Agustín Velloso Santisteban visited Nicaragua for almost two weeks last October to participate in the 4th National Congress of Nicaraguan Higher Education. He shared by e-mail his impressions and reflections of the visit.
You were in Nicaragua for almost two weeks, in Managua, Jinotepe and Estelí. What was your general impression of the social and economic situation in the country?
I have traveled three times for short periods of two to three weeks to Nicaragua in 2016, 2017 and 2019. So I have to be cautious in my response because in that time, most of which I've spent working with colleagues and students at the university, it's hard to get an idea.
I haven't felt any change for the worse at first sight, on the contrary, some improvements, for example a new park in Estelí, and obviously the work of rebuilding the damage caused to university facilities. My impression is that in general economic and social activity is very intense and the most important thing is that the trend, both in mood and productivity, is for the better. As far as I can see, I get the impression that the damage to the economy was been less than the opposition hoped for due to the preponderance of small businesses in the economy.
On the other hand, in informal conversations with very varied people in different localities, I have seen an ambience of calmness and confidence, not without concern, the damage and danger experienced is still recent. As they say, 'the procession goes on within', but you live with normality and tranquility day by day. The logical is to hope that optimism, solidarity and good will are recovered step by step.
I ask you because in Europe a very different version of reality is presented than the actual reality in Nicaragua. What were the most notable contrasts that you found between the version of the country projected in Europe and your experience here?
To the first question, at the risk of being simplistic, my answer is that the general population in Europe cares little or nothing about what happens beyond their neighborhood, let alone abroad. From the wave of imperialist assaults on Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, the Middle East, etc., there is an effect contrary to justice but also to common sense: people look the other way with the stupid consolation that it does not affect them (they have this illusion, because they believe themselves to be beings of superior quality) and without realizing that this carelessness makes us even more inhuman and on top of that (which the least important thing because it follows on from their behavior) puts us all in danger.
Those with political and economic power are well aware that they have almost no difficulty convincing the masses with the bloodiest lies, however obvious they may be, because human beings prefer not to know the horrible torments those powerful people inflict on multitudesof other people. I believe that in fact they seek only to convince the few who doubt and those who harbor some residue of humanity. I am pessimistic, man remains the fiercest predator of man.
The answer to the second question is clearly political: the message of the aggressor, both from the ruling classs and from their perverted media, is to justify the crimes of the former and give them sympathetic coverage by the latter. The coup mongers get made out as victims and the coup's victim as a violent, anti-democratic aggressor. It is an montrosity that I find hard to believe people could swallow as truthful without doubting it for a moment.
Everything puts one on guard : young people from a country with scarce resources who travel to the United States and obtain visas and hotel accommodation and who also appear speaking to the whole world from CNN surrounded by U.S. politicians in a country that as a rule denies people visas, one that gives nothing to Latin American emigrants and that has carried out cruel aggression - for which it was condemned by the International Court of Justice - for many years to the country from which the young people travel, what is one to make of this?
An issue of interest to you during your stay was the impact of the failed 2018 coup d'état on higher education in Nicaragua, what aspects of that impact impressed you?
In spite of the economic damage caused by the destruction of materials and facilities, as well as the violent interruption of the usual rhythm of education, the greatest crime for me has been the manipulation - and in some cases the direct use - of young generations by means of various techniques typical of third or fourth generation wars or whatever they are now called.
In other words, it has been an attempt to use part of the population in order to launch it as a terrorist weapon against the rest of the population.
Unfortunately, perhaps it has to be conceded that the attempt has been intelligently designed to a certain extent: it takes advantage of a population that, because of its youth, is vulnerable and manipulable on the one hand, but determined and willing on the other. While some were indeed working to achieve their political objectives, others thought they were contributing to social change, to an improvement in the situation. It should not be forgotten either that others thought of immediate gain, while others gave free rein to their own ends.
You took part in exchanges with teachers and students of the National Autonomous University of Nicaragua in their campuses in Estelí, Managua and Jinotepe and one supposes they had diverse experiences reflecting different aspects of the reality of the violent coup attempt - is this assumption true? Can you comment on that?
Indeed, like almost everything in life, reality is complex and I think there is a mixture of experiences. Perhaps it can be said that the coup was a single totality, but each participant and each victim reacted, suffered and rationalized everything according to their own experiences and circumstances.
I think that most of the young people involved did not have a crooked intention and that little by little they became aware of the trap they had fallen into. Others, on the other hand, realized it from the beginning. The same goes for their teachers: there were some who signed up for the aggression, each to the extent they wanted, while the others rejected it. Fortunately - especially when compared to the enormous damage to human victims and material damage in other cases in other countries - I believe that despite the particular human suffering and social destabilization, the challenge has been well and quickly overcome.
During the Education Congress and also in Estelí, you made a presentation on "The mission of the university in the face of world disorder" - how do you place or how do you characterize Nicaragua and the events of 2018 in that context?
I should point out that my intervention referred to the role of the universities of imperialist countries, namely the United States and the main NATO countries, as accomplices in the wars of aggression against countries presented by the imperialist powers as failed states, dictatorships, extremists and the other usual lies. Nicaragua has had the bad luck and misfortune of being one of the the empire's "chosen".
Apart from this I dare say that in the difficult circumstances in which world peace finds itself today, not only Nicaragua but any nation that is in the gun sights of the imperialists.
Nicaragua has now suffered - like other countries - the war for resources that the empire now directs as it did in other parts of the globe in the 20th century.
I have the impression that you were very happy with your brief stay in Nicaragua. What were the reasons for your satisfaction with the visit?
In Europe, but it is Spain that most interests me, of course, there is a situation both absurd and disgusting, over and over again in the face of the succession of wars, colour revolutions, springs, and so on. Every coup by the United States in a country of the world, now I am referring to Latin America, is seconded by the Spanish government, whoever is in power ! Be it the extreme right or the enlightened right (for the confused: there is no Left, apart from the testimonial Left).
Absurd because the president of the Spanish government has the habit of being the first world rulers to support each one of those coups for the benefit of national and international public opinion. Apart from the infamous attack against Iraq and others, the current president recently recognized Guaidó in record time, supported Lenin Moreno in the same way, etc., etc., etc.
Disgusting because these leaders say they do so in the name of human rights, democracy and another string of lies that anyone would be ashamed of who had even a micron of humanity. Adding insult to injury, the powers that be then present Spain as the mother country, the maker of the meeting of cultures and a string of similar nonsense.
How could I not be happy if I could verify with my own eyes the suspicions I had in Madrid about the lies churned out day after day in the press, in the statements of politicians in the government and in the opposition, of 'experts' and academics?
Is there any other comment on a subject we haven't touched on?
I fear one thing and believe another, although I'm not entirely sure because, as I said, I haven't been in Nicaragua long enough.
The first is that I fear a new coup may be being planned. It may sound alarmist after the months that have passed since April 2018, but I have been struck by reflections I have heard in some of my conversations with colleagues and other Nicaraguans during my stay: there are some signs of it.
The second is that I believe it would be good if the young people involved, especially the victims, but also the participants and witnesses in the events, were invited to organise in the classrooms of their faculties and other student spaces - voluntarily and with or without the participation of teachers, according to their wishes - some sessions, conversations, even group work, as they deem appropriate, about what happened. The objective is twofold:
First, that whoever wants to can remove the pain, memory, reflection from their soul... something that could be morally and intellectually healing.
Second, that people be better prepared so that what happened in April 2018 does not happen again in the future.