Interview with Valdrack Jaentschke Vice-Minister of Foreign Affairs with Channel 4’s Alberto Mora
March 29, 2019
Alberto Mora
We welcome the Vice-Minister of Foreign Affairs, Compañero Valdrack Jaentschke; thank you, Brother, for being with us this morning to speak a little about the Meeting being held in Managua on the 25th Anniversary of the Association of Caribbean States, an Association that started in 1994, whose meeting in Managua ends today.
We wanted to ask you what issues you have touched on; among the objectives, according to what we have been able to learn, are strengthening Integration, a Common Economic Space, marine conservation, promoting sustainable development, and issues like Transport and Tourism. What have you been working on during this meeting, Valdrack? Welcome.
Valdrack Jaentschke
First of all, thank you Alberto, good morning. This meeting marks the 25th Anniversary, I believe that in itself it is an important first for the Association. This Association is the largest Subregional Group in the Hemisphere, it includes 25 Member States, 9 Associate Members that are countries that have not yet achieved independence or else are in that process; it has 28 Observer States, 6 Founding Organizations and 4 Organizations.... Founding Organizations are, like SICA, CARICOM, CABEI, and ECLAC.
It is an Organization that was built around the fundamental logic of building a platform for Cooperation, you might say Integration, among the countries that share the Caribbean Sea. But the Caribbean Sea is not only a physical, geographical matter, which is important, that already is very important, but it is also a whole Culture, a whole Identity, a whole process of belonging, let's say, to the Caribbean Sea, regardless of the languages we speak. It is a space that reproduces a History, an original American history, an African history, even a European history, but at the end of the day it builds a civilization.
I think that one of the most important things for us is to have recognized the Caribbean character of Nicaragua. II’ll focus on Nicaragua and then talk about the Association. The Constitutional Reforms of 2015 recognize Nicaragua with borders in the Caribbean, it states. Before it stated the Atlantic, those who thought they bordered the Atlantic... No, no, we are Caribbean! And that is so much a sense of permanence and not just for those of us who are Afro-Caribbean or who speak one or more of the languages spoken in the Caribbean; it is so also for the entire population. Nicaragua is a State that is involved in the Caribbean, because that has implications eespecially for the main theme of this meeting.
The main motto of this meeting is, "Uniting efforts in the Caribbean to confront Climate Change". Why Climate Change, and the Caribbean Sea? Because one of the most vulnerable places is the Caribbean Coast, and not only the Islands, but the low coastal areas, which are 2 categories identified by the Experts as the most vulnerable on the Planet; that is, once the sea rises the first thing that will disappear are the Coasts, the Islands.
As you know that most of the islands have hills, even mountains, when the sea rises the first thing that go are where the populations are settled, because on the islands the populations are mainly settled in the coastal areas of the islands themselves. But there are also zones from Surinam, Guyana, the same Venezuela, passing through Central America.
Central America is one of the most vulnerable, remember that this isthmus is very precarious in terms of its age, even in terms of how long has actually existed, when it emerged from the Sea. And the Caribbean coast of Central America is one of the most vulnerable; in Suriname there are places that are practically below sea level; Guyana itself has places or cities that are almost at or below sea level. And here, our Caribbean Coast is very vulnerable to that, to rising sea levels and you are going to see that the sea is going to reach practically up to the Cordillera Yolaina, if you don't take care.
So, rather than talking about the technical detail , 1.5 degrees or 2 degrees, the Association gives us the chance to discuss what the technical specialists have discussed in the specialized spaces addressing Climate Change, of Climate Change, like the COP, so as to place the discussion in a space of policy formulators or policy decision makers who are the Heads of State, the Heads of Government, Foreign Ministers, who in one way or another have technical advisers , but they have to have the awareness of what we are dealing with; namely, by 2050 this Region will lose many of its coasts.
You have, for example, the phenomenon of the sargasso algae, which reproduce rapidly in a subtropical climate, which reproduce rapidly with the rise in temperature. It seems that we are talking about technical things, but this seaweed affects the coasts, and I'm not talking about a little amount arriving, a small amount, but it arrives by tons and tons and destroys the coasts.
In the Varadero itself in Cuba one sees, there they presented the big trucks and the heavy machinery removing them from the coast to return. This is a consequence of Climate Change. But also the other issues that have to do with human settlements, water, production; in the case of Central America the issue of drought.
So then you start with a discussion that seems quite technical... Well, we have to limit the World to 1.5 degrees, say the experts. It doesn't hold one’s attention, you end up saying what does that mean? It means that if the World today is 1 degree above what it was at the beginning of the industrial era, when it reaches 1.5 degrees above the bench line, that is when industrial production began, there is going to be so much warming that it is going to affect us all. And that is what the Association gives, the Association of Caribbean States gives you the policy space, for policy formulation, for policy decision makers, to build awareness and start to make the decisions based on cooperation, policy decisions.
For example, the Caribbean, the 25 States, the most vulnerable region of the Planet, do not have a common, unitary position in the discussion of the UN Climate Framework Green Fund money, for example. We do not have a common position, that is, we are building that in the UN Latin American and Caribbean Group (GRULAC), and there you have it! GRULAC includes South America, but here in this meeting are 25 States in which there are large States, large States economically: Mexico, Venezuela, Colombia are large economies, extremely well-organized economies and societies, Cuba too, and then medium-sized economies and also much smaller economies. So it is not a question of the size of the island, but of its contribution to the regional economy and the possibility of being affected by those consequences of Climate Change.
Then, when Nicaragua assumed the Pro Tempore Presidency last year, in Margarita Island, Venezuela, President Comandante Daniel suggested that we had to find a fundamental reason to make this Association relevant. And it was up to us to preside over a decision taken in 2016 in Havana, at the previous Summit, to strengthen, revitalize and restructure the Association. It was up to us to lead the Association of Caribbean States in this process.
For example, we built a directorate for mobilizing resources that we didn't have. We argue that if the Association is going to be relevant for a small country, it has to offer access to what other countries have, start with our own resources, right, because it is an enormous Region from the economic point of view, from the demographic point of view, from the geographical point of view.
This sharing among us is one of the first objectives. In the Assocation of Caribbean States Founding Statute, it is established as a Cooperation and Integration Organization; but Cooperation is not only the mobilization of resources, it is not only seeking resources externally, it’s working first among ourselves; on our capacities, discussing Transport for example.
Here you have to go to a northern country to return to a Caribbean country, or you have to go to a southern Country to return to a Caribbean Country, and you do not have a regional airline for the area. But not only that, economic maritime activity, does not exist! One cannot talk about roads, we have to talk in terms of boats. And that makes life more expensive, it makes it difficult for people to move about.
The paradox of this is that, many years ago, 50, 70, 80 years ago, moving about between the islands by ship was enormous; that is to say, the movement of people from Corn Island to Grand Cayman, to El Limón, to the islands of Honduras, to Roatán Bay, to San Andrés, was great. People had relatives everywhere.
One day I was invited, I think I told you, I was invited to the inauguration of a big coastal transport project in Central America, as if it were a great invention. I told you the story of my grandmother; my grandmother had nine children distributed in four different places, and when she wanted to, she would get on a boat, take 2 or 3 days, and wake up in one or other of those places.
That movement of people ceased to exist, because the coastal shipping lines were no longer profitable from the new perspective of the big shipping lines. But we’re talking about a ship that would go six times a year to San Andrés, yes, carrying excursions and taking goods for sale... My mother tells us, for example, that the sale of Corn Island produce, coconut oil and those things, they did when the boat went; she stored produce, then went and brought the things, like shoes, like dresses, etc...
That trade that existed 50, 70, 80 years ago and maybe even further back, but it doesn’t exist now, and that is also a weakness, and one of the Association's policy concerns is transport, another is sustainable tourism.
Alberto Mora
Is it very difficult to make progress on this issue, which among most important?
Valdrack Jaentschke's words
It is difficult, because some of the islands, I think they are maybe four Islands, including Saint Vincent, are owners of an airline very similar to the one we have here, we are not going to say the name because I might get fined for doing so, but it is the one that goes from here to the Coast, very similar the planes and everything. But they have found it difficult to make it profitable, first, for a lot of people it is very expensive, and then for themselves it is difficult in economic terms. They are in a specific discussion about that airline, it is called LIAT, we can mention that one; but the big discussion is about going back to the sea, back to water transport which is the cheapest in the world, in other words, water transport is the basic option.
Alberto Mora
But this also depends on the interest of entrepreneurs; the State is not an investor.
Valdrack Jaentschke
That's exactly it. Products come from the northern ports and do not get moved from island to island, that is the big discussion. There were past experiences in which you had a boat that was based locally and went everywhere; then you say: so it should be simple; but when it comes to implementing it, it becomes difficult. In other words, there are challenges that we have to solve, and these are the challenges we are discussing.
For example the issue of trade, you have CARICOM with its commercial structure, the Central America Integration System (SICA) with its commercial structure, so to speak, and the big countries that I don't like mentioning specifically, and getting them to talk to each other is difficult, that is, that they talk about getting into details, about tariffs, and on which products. This conversation is difficult between two groups of States that share a sea, that share a space, a culture, a history and a geography. And it’s this of discussion the Association can help resolve.
Alberto Mora
On tourism, is it easier? Has progress been made?
Valdrack Jaentschke
We've made progress. Nicaragua has been President of the Special Committee on Tourism for several years, at different times, and if you task me one of the things that came out of that discussion then for example one thing was to facilitate the issue of cruise ships here. If you remember, they didn't come here, no one thought we would ever see them.
Now, I'm not going to tell you that it is the ACS that resolved the issue of cruise ships; the issue of cruise ships was resolved by the cruise ship companies when they saw that it was worth it... But the discussion of Nicaragua as a destination involves several things, right? but among them, for example, I remember several years ago, when we were President of that Committee we organized a Meeting between cruise ship companies and destination countries.
The discussion of cruise ships visiting the other side of the Caribbean where there is a lot of tourism, where there is much more than ours, is whether the cruise ship leaves you out, or not; which is not a discussion we can decide; for us, from the point of view of tourism development, for us it is important. But it also involves many things, like the issue of repetition, and that is for specialists I know very little about that. But that is a continuing discussion that we have, transport, tourism, trade.
And one topic that was very important is reducing the risk from disasters. On that we have made significant progress in putting the Caribbean Organization, which is called CDMA, and our regional organization in Central America, CEPREDNAC, which I believe includes, if I am not mistaken, Doctor Gonzalez, the will perhaps correct me, Mexico.
Those two organizations were in the same space, with the same hurricane, because the hurricane enters there and leaves here, and they didn't talk to each other! They just didn't talk, they didn't formulate things, they didn't talk. One of the things that we managed to insist on is, come on, let’s sit down and talk and start formulating what we know; their specialties, their manuals... And our experience has been very well regarded in that area.
Alberto Mora
Let’s look as other aspects that have to do with sustainable development that run through all this because it is a general issue; let's also talk a little about countries’ representation, we have seen that Presidents, Prime Ministers, Ministers of Foreign Affairs have arrived; that is to say, everyone has been present at this summit meeting, which represents for the city of Managua an important reason to be content.
Valdrack Jaentschke
It is a recognition for Nicaragua, it is a recognition of the work done to strengthen the Association, not only during this Presidency, but for many years there has been recognition for Nicaragua, because at the level of our people there’s recognition, first, that is of interest for the Association, but also for the country.
I think it is very useful for us for other people see what is happening in the country in positive terms of the progress we have made, of the interest in strengthening Peace. But also to underline, because they really think that in this country we do not have a population similar to theirs, when we do, so they will say to you: Where do you come from? Because they will say that and then we joke about it. But it is a boost for Nicaragua, it is a recognition for Nicaragua as a force within the Association of Caribbean States, and as I was saying, it is the largest sub-regional or sub-hemispheric group, as you might put it.
Alberto Mora
Yes, it’s not insignificant, 25 member States, and the role of associated States.
Valdrack Jaentschke
The associate Member States, they're independent. It is important because they are working hard for recognition of their independence, their autonomy, so the Association gives them a space to have that recognition. And they are treated as what they are, Associate Members, who have a lot to contribute as well.
You have countries like Martinique, whose Prime Minister is here; like the British Virgin Islands which in this case is the first time they are participating because they just joined the Association last year. It was hard for them because they had to negotiate their participation with their own authorities.
Alberto Mora
Decision-making, monitoring and compliance mechanisms?
Valdrack Jaentschke
The Association is managed by a Council of Ministers of which we were President this year, today we are going to hand over. There is already a recommendation from the Council of Ministers, that was given yesterday, which recommended to today's plenary meeting that Barbados assume the presidency.
This is very important because in recent years it has been difficult for the Caribbean island countries to assume the Presidency, they assume the Vice-Presidency and suchlike, because they are small, their foreign ministries are very small and it’s hard for them, but Barbados is a very important and very interesting force in the Region.
Barbados has always been a very big force in integration, in strengthening CARICOM integration. It has very strong, very strong positions around that, historically; and Barbados has now decided to assume the Presidency. Yesterday the Council of Ministers recommended that it assume the Presidency and it is going to be supported, because in the Council of Ministers it has to be supported.
The Group is complicated, because the Association is also divided into 4 Subgroups: SICA, CARICOM, the big countries I mentioned, they are called the Group of Three, and a group of countries, Panama, Dominican Republic and Cuba; when the Association started, the Dominican Republic was not part of SICA, now it is part of SICA, but back then they were countries not any of the other groupings. So those four sectors or groups of countries have to be represented in the Council of Ministers.
You asked what the decision making process is like. The Executive Board is the decision making body and has a General Secretary who is a national of an island country, Saint Lucia, and she is a well known person in the Caribbean world, in CARICOM, she has made great efforts to bring the Regions together from her experience in CARICOM. In other words, you previously had General Secretaries who were more Spanish speaking, a Dominican, a Colombian, a Guatemalan, and I personally believe that communication with the CARICOM Countries was more difficult as a result.
Having a General Secretary who comes from one of the CARICOM Countries facilitates a lot , and one can say that much of the fresh participation by CARICOM Countries and having the meeting come to Nicaragua has to do with the leadership of Dr. June Soomer.
This year you are going to have an Association in which not just the majority of its members are Caribbean, but it is the first time that you are going to have a Caribbean country President and a Caribbean country General Secretary.
Alberto Mora
What is expected of this Meeting, will there be a Declaration, are you discussing one?
Valdrack Jaentschke
There is a very interesting Declaration that was adopted yesterday by the Council of Ministers, recommending it for adoption at the level of the main Meeting that is today. It is a very interesting Declaration because it speaks of building Leadership in the face of Climate Change; it has, as a comrade from Saint Vincent and the Grenadines says, their ambassador who was participating in the preparatory meetings: the Declaration is divided into the issues of Climate Change and the economic issues that are great challenges for our countries.
For example, the issue of correspondent banks... What does that mean? Many banks in the Caribbean countries have been declared Tax Havens, by the North, and it is difficult for them to mobilize resources; so they have established a firm position to address that, and even positions on demands for reparations for the African slave trade, and in that there was a discussion and it also includes action on the issue of colonies and on indigenous peoples.
CARICOM has proposed a Reparations Commission and you will see how difficult it was to reach a consensus on that, or to build a consensus with countries that feel they are being signaled, right? So those issues are in the Declaration.
Now, what is the Declaration for? It serves as a political guide in international spaces; that is to say, it is a document for reference when we are discussing in other spaces where unequal interests exist. As I told you, the differences between countries, differences of size, culture, education, language, means that countries have different interests; you sit down with 35 actors that have 35 different interests, so then the important thing is to bring them together, to find themes, means, mechanisms so as to reach agreement.
For example, the countries that prioritize Climate Change, the coutnries that talk about policy formulation, the countries that talk about building Leadership, I believe that all this will help us to have greater influence in the more technical and specific spaces discussing Climate Change and on the issue of access to resources.
For example, there is an issue of losses and damages that looks easy to bring up, but there is a category that developing countries have been pushing for politically, which is that the countries that are going to contribute to the Green Fund recognize that it's not just a question of measures for adaptation or mitigation of Climate Change, in other words, adjusting to what is coming, but recognition that our countries have suffered losses and irreversible damage.
In countries like Dominica, not a hurricane, but a tropical storm once destroyed that country, left it completely destroyed. It suffered that level of destruction, and as you know, they say these natural phenomena are becoming stronger and stronger; they suffered that level of destruction and you also saw what happened in the island in Antigua and Barbuda, Martinique I think also suffered the same, Puerto Rico does not belong to the ACS but you saw the experience they had. This category of destructive catastrophe has to be recognized in order to help the countries to rebuild that.
In our case, we had for example Hurricane Mitch, or Hurricane Juana on the Caribbean Coast, which destroyed Bluefields in a catastrophic manner. Those losses and damages the big, rich countries do not want to recognize because they say: No, that is to start investing in things like infrastructure, like rebuilding structures.
Alberto Mora
Yes, it's not easy; when it comes to resources, it's not easy.
Valdrack Jaentschke
They quickly send water, blankets, that's fast... Here comes a plane, they say. We ask what's coming? They say we’ll get water, blankets and some mattresses. But that doesn't solve your losses and damages when your infrastructure has been destroyed.
For example, Mitch destroyed our infrastructure. Recently we just finished rebuilding one of the bridges destroyed by Mitch, I think that happened in 1998 and it is now in 2019 when the bridge that goes from Muy Muy to Matiguás was rebuilt. Because the prevailing concept is that it is difficult for other States to repair or rebuild the public structures that destroyed by these phenomena.
Alberto Mora
But that was because, as you know, they looted everything. Remember?
Valdrack Jaentschke
That's right. But in addition to the fact that tour resources were looted, on which I agree with you with that not very common political description… but a thief is a thief! The truth is that so much was looted that only now is the government of President Comandante Ortega is rebuilding.
Alberto Mora
It's a delicate subject.
Valdrack Jaentschke
But in this matter of losses and damages, remember that Nicaragua was also comes the country that stubbornly insisted: This world cannot exist at 1.5 degrees. I believe you have interviewed Paul Oquist on this subject.
Alberto Mora
And it's not that far off now, is it?
Valdrack Jaentschke
But not only that, from the start Nicaragua said : We did not sign the Paris COP because what they are signing is a lie. Now we are making progress and we really have respect from around the world on this issue, and the Caribbean countries see this experience of Nicaragua as very positive. Even the organizational capacity we now have in our families and communities, they see that as very positive, because really their societies are not as well organized as they might be to face this kind of things.
Those are the kind of things that we discuss, but what comes out of it? It's not that at the end there is going to be a great deal of resources available or suchlike... No! It raises rhe issue of Caribbean unity, the issue of overcoming the conflictive environment that exists throughout the Hemisphere, to have a space in which we can agree on issues that are very pressing, whether it be reducing risks from disasters , whether it be transportation, whether it be tourism, whether it be the capacity to promote and revitalize our culture and identities. So progress on all that I think has been one of the great advances of this organization.
Alberto Mora
The meeting ends today in the afternoon and we hope to know more details...
Valdrack Jaentschke
The Declaration of Managua...and the Plan of Action 2019-2021 which were adopted yesterday at the Council Meeting and which has clear significance.
Alberto Mora
Because it covers three years, it says.
Valdrack Jaentschke's words
Yes, in other words, it covers 2019-2021, it is clearly significant.
Alberto Mora
Thank you Valdrack for coming, thank you for joining us.