Nicaragua : the FSLN and women's rights

Karla Jacobs: The relationship between the FSLN and women's rights issues is an interesting subject which involves a number of contradictions. It's also a subject that is not fully understood by international progressive sectors.

In my opinion it is ironic that the international media - corporate and alternative - should be expressing more concern than ever about women's rights in Nicaragua now when the Nicaraguan government is actually reestablishing rights to the Nicaraguan population and has a significantly higher proportion of women in government posts than any previous government.

Perhaps, apart from media company owner's bad faith, this can be put down to the fact that progressive groups in the US and Europe may have different ideas about what makes up a pro women agenda than Nicaraguan women themselves do.

From your perspective as a Nicaraguan woman and as a journalist, what should the key points of a pro women policy in Nicaragua be?

Scarlet Cuadra: I understand what you mean when you talk about a negative light being shone on the Nicaraguan government by the media and also by sectors of the international women's movement. Of course that is related to the issue of therapeutic abortion and a woman's right to decide.

And yes, that is an issue that is in debate, it is a source of concern. As a woman, I fully identify myself with a woman's right to choose, with the right to decide how many children she wants or is able to have. Although I don't see abortion as a method of contraception. But, anyway, that is another part of the story, and it is probably the most interesting part.

Education: the key to the development of society as a whole

But if you ask me what I view as key policies in terms of women's rights I have to mention education. And the emphasis that this government is putting on creating access to education for the population as a whole, men and women, that emphasis is the key to the development of a society as a whole, but also of an individual.

Education is the formal way to develop, to acquire awareness - awareness which is equivalent to knowledge. If you have information, if you know and understand things, if you can share your ideas with others, then you are progressing. Those who have knowledge and understanding progress, they don't stagnate.

The [FSLN government's] education policy is for men and women, but in our country the ones with least access to formal education have been women. And of course, women are the ones who, at a family level, transfer information and knowledge to the younger generation of the household. So it is paradoxical really that women are the ones who have been most excluded from the systemization of knowledge.

But as a result of that reality it is women who were most affected by the social, economic and cultural limitations [of the last several years] and who are the ones most benefited by the public policy and the political will to open up the country's classrooms to the population today.

That's the first key point. And in terms of education this government has demonstrated that they are working towards equality, that they are working towards social justice and that they are prioritizing women.

Economic opportunities in acknowledgment of women's work at home

After that there is the issue of economic wellbeing. And, we don't even have to mention it anymore, everyone knows that this government's economic policy is fundamentally aimed at supporting women.

In the food production program, known as Zero Hunger, single mothers and their families are prioritized although not only single mothers are benefited. As part of that program [a food production bonus, in the form of farm animals and other inputs] are deposited in the hands of the woman of the household.

Women have always had the responsibility of keeping the household economy going. And now in acknowledgment of that responsibility the government is providing women with an instrument of change, a tool with which to improve their and their family's standard of living - which is the productive bonus - chickens, pigs, a cow, etc.

There are people that mock this program. But they don't understand the impact that the process has of becoming owners of these animals and other inputs which, first of all, ensure survival, but also provide the opportunity to manage and produce resources that can bring about important changes in the life of the family.

In Nicaragua popular participation is a reality

Now, talking about the presence of women in public posts, that really helps because it creates a different image. As a result of the presence of numerous female government officials, ordinary women see female officials making decisions, participating at the highest level. And women are not just participating at a government level, it is happening at a grass roots level as well. That is what the Citizen Power Councils, the CPCs, are all about.

The CPCs are spaces where participation is made possible. And if you visit towns, barrios and communities across Nicaragua you will witness that. When I worked more with grassroots communication I saw men and women participating as equals. I saw women really empowered in their roles on the CPCs here in Managua and especially in the poor neighbourhoods. In the neighbourhoods that have enjoyed the least social benefits I saw women participating with a force, a will, that made me think - something is happening here, doors are being opened to permit participation in decision making. And of course it isn't happening as fast as many people would want. But it is happening and the pace is increasing.

A lot of people probably promote this kind of participatory model but most of the time it sounds like a theoretical proposal. The difference is that in Nicaragua it is actually being put into practice. And the reason it is not being put into practice as fast as people might like is that we are working with the adversities of the reality on the ground - we have to confront the contradictions reality presents us with.

So, we have the manifest will of this government, of the party in government, to open spaces for popular participation. They are formal spaces which don't make problems disappear from one day to the next, but I think that they do help to change the stereotype of power relationships within the country.

Today we have ministers that look like the general population

I was talking to a friend a while ago and I asked him if he had noticed how the FSLN has changed the face of government. There is an important political and cultural message in that. Because now the ministers aren't blond, they aren't light skinned and slim, they don't talk like the upper class. They reflect the image of the vast majority of Nicaraguans - they're dark skinned, they have indigenous blood in them, they talk with a thick Nicaraguan accent.

In other words this government has the political will to change the face of the government itself, to make the government look more like the people so that the general public sees this government as theirs, a government that works for the people.

This also helps people to feel the confidence to take part in monitoring government transparency, to make proposals or to take part in a debate.

And now the government has implemented its policy of a very high percentage of women in public positions. And the majority of those women look like ordinary Nicaraguan women. That fact contributes to the necessary reduction of the very common feeling among ordinary Nicaraguans, the lack of self esteem, the tendency to think "but I could never take on a decision making role, I could never participate in debates."

Much progress has been made in terms of health care, but there are pending debts

Then there is the issue of health care and the issue of abortion. In my opinion it is unfair to stigmatize this government for having penalized therapeutic abortion, because the advances in terms of access to and quality of health care in Nicaragua with this government have translated into better health for women.

I am unsure of the exact statistics, but according to government figures there has been a reduction in the maternal death rate. I understand that is the case, and it's logical because greater access to health care and better specialized attention for women should create that reduction.

Yes, there are pending debts. There are things to discuss. There are things that will have to be fought for by the people who believe that women should have the right to choose - they will have to reopen the debate and generate a state of public opinion favourable to that issue.

KJ: Talking precisely about that issue. When therapeutic abortion was outlawed three years ago personally I thought that within a couple of years at most the law would have been overturned, because I took the passing of that law as part of the FSLN's electoral strategy, so as not to lose the elections.

But unfortunately, three years later the law has not been overturned. Would do you make of that fact? Do you think the overturning of the therapeutic abortion ban is a priority for the FSLN?

SC: I thought exactly the same as you. That the FSLN felt obliged to sacrifice a woman's right to a therapeutic abortion in order to advance strategically at a crucial time. But obviously that is not how it is.

We are obliged to reopen the debate about therapeutic abortion

Therefore I believe that all of us militants of the FSLN with an opinion favourable to therapeutic or non therapeutic abortion are obliged to continue our struggle to take this issue to the debating table without fear of expressing our opinions. We are in the obligation of creating the conditions so that, at some point, the law is overturned.

But this issue doesn't distance me from the vision of the FSLN. Our party is a party where there are proposals, where there is debate. And the militants have the responsibility to express their opinions.

I have spoken to lots of different fellow FSLN militants and I have come to the conclusion that a significant proportion are against the penalization of abortion, the there is another sector that isn't particularly interested in the subject, and another sector that supports the penalization. But there is no sense of stigmatization of those that believe in a woman's right to choose.

We are obliged to reopen the debate. And we shouldn't put it off because of that tendency to think - "right now other things are more important." In this sort of a situation you shouldn't wait to be presented with for the chance to put forward your proposal you have to create the conditions so that these issues are debated within the party, so that a concrete proposal can grow, coherently, so that it can be discussed within the party, within society as a whole, within the government.

I think the FSLN militants are open minded enough to discuss this issue. But the conditions have to be created so that that discussion can result in a decision being taken. And then, obviously, the political context will play a part in the final outcome.

The women's groups that oppose the FSLN

KJ: Thinking about the current situation within the FSLN. You say you believe that a significant proportion of FSLN militants are in favour of the proposal to overturn the law that penalizes therapeutic abortion. With that in mind I would like to talk a little about the fact that the majority of women's organizations, or at least the most visible ones, don't support FSLN ...

SC: But they oppose the FSLN not because of the issue of therapeutic abortion. They separated from the FSLN as a result of their political vision long before that became an issue.

The issue of abortion doesn't necessarily distance you from the FSLN. There are thousands of women within the FSLN who disagree with that law but who have chosen not to distance themselves from the FSLN because of it.

What has distanced the women's groups that you talk about from the FSLN are their political positions, positions that go well beyond the issue of abortion. And it is their right to hold different political positions. It is their right to distance themselves. But I would say that the tendency to make out that that issue - the issue of abortion - was the cause of their separation from the FSLN is dishonest. It is manipulative.

Look at it this way - the right wing parties oppose therapeutic abortion but the women's groups we are talking about carry out joint marches with those parties. So the issue of abortion hasn't distanced them from the right wing parties.

The fact that these women's groups march with and side with the right wing parties is because they share similar political outlooks. Because they identify with each other.

And that sector [the right wings parties] are the ones that campaign against therapeutic abortion in the most manipulative and perverse way. But the women's groups don't think twice about marching with them. They probably receive funding for their joint campaigns - not that I've ever seen them - they'll share banners, T-shirts.

KJ: Do you think it is a disadvantage for the FSLN that these women's groups, which are very visible ...

SC: And very intelligent as well. Within those groups there are very intelligent women who have demonstrated that they are committed to women's rights, but who for different reasons now support the political opposition.

And yes I do think it affects the FSLN's image, especially at an international level. But it looks as though the FSLN is unwilling to respond, or has simply opted for a strategy of "let them say what they want."

Those who are committed to the struggle for women's rights are missed within the FSLN

KJ: Do you think it is a disadvantage for the FSLN that the women's groups we are talking about do not support the government, for example in terms of being able to reopen the debate about therapeutic abortion?

SC: I distinguish between two categories of women [who oppose the FSLN because they believe the party does not defend women's rights]. There are the most visible ones who feature on the national political scene and who take advantage of every possible opportunity to attack the current political project lead by the FSLN.

And then there are the ones who are committed to women's issues, who believe women should have the right to choose and who have distanced themselves from the FSLN but who haven't adopted a strictly anti-sandinista position.

And yes I do think it is a shame that people falling into the second category ended up leaving the FSLN because they could contribute a lot to the debate. With regards to the cause of therapeutic abortion it is a shame that they are not with us. It's a factor that debilitates the FSLN. Those people are a factor that is missing from the party.

But the people that have opposing political positions - why would we want them in the party if they would vote against the continuity of the revolution that we are carrying forward?

They are people that say things like - "but I gave my life for the revolution, I worked overtime for the revolution ..." So why would we want them in the party if they were going to be crying all the time about what they gave in the 80s? I think those people did a good thing by distancing themselves, by finding their own spaces. Because they have nothing to offer inside the party.

Within the other category I mentioned there are many people, including people I know personally, who feel very hurt about what has happened in relation to the issue of therapeutic abortion and for that reason have decided to distance themselves. They are people who believe that once again the FSLN has sacrificed women's rights for strategic gain.