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An interview with Commander Eden Pastora, coordinator of the River San Juan dredging project
December 17th 2010
Tortilla con Sal: How would you describe the main objectives of the dredging of River San Juan in the short, medium and long term?
Eden Pastora: First of all I want to say that the River San Juan is a mysterious river, it is an immensely attractive river – Costa Rica is attracted by it, Nicaragua it attracted by it. Powerful nations have taken notice of the River San Juan, powerful nations have fallen in love with the River San Juan.
The River San Juan has immense significance in the history of the Nicaraguan people. Meanwhile, Costa Rica, with its expansionist nature, has always had its eye on the river.
The River San Juan, therefore, is emblematic of our dignity and our sovereignty. It is through the River San Juan that water from our two great lakes, Xolotlan and Cocibolca, and from the entire watershed of the Pacific side of Nicaragua, drains to the sea.
The River San Juan is beautiful and enchanting. It is a magical river.
During the last two hundred years a significant amount of sediment has built up along the last 30 kilometres of the river’s mouth, a phenomenon which has now obstructed navigation in that part of the river. As a result, during the last two centuries, our waters, which for thousands of years ran their natural course along the delta and into the sea, now flow along the Costa Rican Colorado River. This, of course, has had the effect of limiting progress and development along the Nicaraguan delta area.
So that is why we are dredging the river and, in doing so, we are defining our border with Costa Rica in accordance with the Alexander arbitral awards and the Cañas-Jerez treaty. According to Alexander, the last 2,000 metres of the border does not run along the southern bank of the river but is in fact marked by the Harbor Head Lagoon and what is described as the first channel (which implies that there is more than one channel).
We want to dredge the river in order to integrate the area which has been neglected with the rest of Nicaragua. It is an area which previous neo-liberal governments have marginalized.
We want to dredge the river so that we can again feel we are the owners of the river, so that navigation is possible like it was when the Spanish Conquistadores first came to Nicaragua, when Central America was discovered and when Nicaragua became independent. In 1821 this river was navigable through its Caribbean delta in Nicaragua, not in Costa Rica.
We want to dredge the river as a means of exercising our sovereignty over these territories. We also want to dredge the river as a way of exploiting the tourist potential of the surrounding area, which is, indeed, very beautiful.
The area has vast potential for ecological tourism. It is the most untouched area of Central America and one of the few truly virgin areas, in the sense of being an untouched ecosystem, that are left in Latin America. After Orinoco or the Mato Grosso, the most untouched ecosystem is our south eastern corner.
We want to be able to exploit this golden opportunity that we have in terms of ecological tourism, which has come to be known as the industry without chimneys. We want to really be the owners our territory, we want to possess our territory.
By dredging our River San Juan, we are making use of our right to exercise sovereignty over the river, a sovereign right awarded to us as part of the Cañas-Jerez treaty, the Cleveland arbitral awards and the Alexander arbitral awards. A right awarded to us by nature itself.
It is through the River San Juan that the waters of El Tuma, the Apanas Lake, the River Viejo, the Lakes Xolotlan and Cocibolca, and the entire watershed of the Pacific side of the country are drained.
Costa Rica has refused to collaborate with the border delimitation process by failing to put in place the relevant trigonometric points so as to gradually take territory from us, gradually reduce the size of the River San Juan, thus gradually reducing our rights in the same way Colombia has been doing with our territorial sea which they have tried to reduce to the size of a bathtub!
But now we have a different sort of President. The previous presidents of Nicaragua were always on the defensive when confronted with Costa Rica. But now we have progressed to a political offensive, a diplomatic offensive in defence of our sovereignty and our national dignity. It is for all these reasons that we are currently exercising our sovereign rights in the River San Juan.
TcS: In their false accusations against the Nicaraguan government and the dredging project, the Costa Ricans have said that a significant amount of environmental damage is being caused on the Costa Rican side of the River San Juan. Can you comment on these accusations made by the Costa Rica government about supposed environmental damage?
EP: The Costa Ricans began to make those accusations following a denunciation by narco-trafficker, Agustin Reyes Aragon. Aragon was in Nicaraguan territory when the Nicaraguan authorities, making use of our sovereign rights, captured [members of a drug trafficking circle he was a member of]. Prior to Aragon’s denunciation the Costa Ricans had not said a thing about our presence in our territory.
They talk about ecological damage, but their claims are in fitting with a phrase I heard from my grandparents – “they judge according to their own actions.”
They are involved in the constant provocation of ecological damage in Costa Rica and in the River San Juan (as studies of the Las Crucitas mining project have recently demonstrated). The entire southern bank of the River San Juan has been deforested – the Nicaraguan bank is made up of virgin forest, it is a natural reserve while the Costa Rican bank has been completely deforested and is now used for industrial banana and agricultural production which results in hundreds of thousands of tonnes of insecticide, herbicide, and all kinds of other chemicals running into our River San Juan.
They are the ones that have been condemned by Costa Rican environmentalists for provoking damage to the ecosystem in Costa Rica. I repeat, “they judge according to their own actions.”
All we have done is clear a channel which had received a large amount of sediment provoking a number of trees to grow inside the area Alexander identified as the first channel. What our clearing work involved was the cutting down of 150 trees in order to reopen a channel in Nicaraguan territory.
The problem is that Costa Rica thinks the border follows the southern bank until the sea. They don’t respect Harbor Head. They don’t respect the channel. They believe their territory ends on the other side of these limits, but the limits were clearly identified by Alexander.
Their definition of environmental damage seems some sand which we extracted from the channel and deposited on the Nicaraguan side of the border. They take advantage of the prestige they have at an international level of being a democratic country without an army – they sell themselves well! – and they take advantage of that image to try to do us harm.
But nowadays, with globalization, with TV, with the Internet and all the other media sources that exist, it’s not easy to mislead the world. Before, when these media options didn’t exist, it would have been easy for the Costa Ricans to make themselves out to be the underdog in this dispute, but the fact of the matter is that they do have an army even though they don’t call it an army.
But whether they choose to refer to their soldiers as policemen, Sons of Mary, or Boy Scouts is beside the point because the fact of the matter is that they are armed with M60s, mortars and M79 grenade launchers. They are trained by Israel, by US special forces, by Colombia. Costa Rica has its army without calling it an army.
In fact, they are violating the Costa Rican Constitution by having what is in effect an army even without referring to it as such.
So we are more than willing to defend ourselves in the International Court of Justice. Subsequently, we plan to accuse them ourselves. Because it is Costa Rica that is provoking environmental damage in both Costa Rica and Nicaragua, not the other way round.
TcS: Comandante Eden, in the context of everything you have explained just now, how do you view the historical significance of the current dredging of River San Juan?
EP: This is one of the mega-projects that is going to change the history of Nicaragua. Because the dredging of the river obliges the Costa Ricans to finally define the border it has with us, something they have avoided doing.
This project is of such importance that it will play a defining role in the ability of my children, my grandchildren and my great grandchildren to live in peace. The Costa Ricans have not allowed my generation nor the generations before me to live in peace as a result of their constant attempts to get their hands on the river, on the southern part of Lake Cocibolca and on other parts of Nicaraguan territory.
The dredging of the river will bring an end to Costa Rica’s expansionist aspirations which means that my grandchildren and my great grandchildren will be able to live in peace with their southern neighbours, our Costa Rican brothers.
And I refer to the Costa Rican people as our brothers because the Costa Rican people is very different to the oligarchy that governs the country, which is the sector within the country that maintains the expansionist spirit I have spoken about.
Only 10% of Costa Ricans are interested in the current dispute [with Nicaragua]. The other 90% of Costa Ricans think of us as brothers and have no problem with us dredging our river. That is what the results of the latest opinion poll in Costa Rica demonstrate.
So this project is crucial in terms of determining the peace and tranquillity of my grandchildren and great children.
TCS: Is it fair to characterize this project as a project that has been facilitated by ALBA? Or is it a project made possible with national funds?
EP: As the Costa Rican Foreign Minister said during a presentation to the Costa Rican Assembly, the budget is so small, and the dredger we are using is so small that it is impossible for us to cause any damage to the Colorado River. We are not provoking any damage to the Colorado River, the Costa Rican Minister said as much in the country’s legislature.
All this began as the result of a denunciation of the narco-trafficker I mentioned earlier. What is strange is that the Costa Rican authorities are able to talk and talk and talk without ever mentioning narco-trafficking. They are able to talk and talk and talk without ever mentioning organized crime and weapons trafficking.
The OAS described Costa Rica as the narco-traffickers’ warehouse in Central America. Narco-traffickers were operating there and continue to operate with impunity.
Indeed it has been necessary for 400 warships, 200 helicopters and 14,000 US soldiers to come to Costa Rica to do something about narco-trafficking in this area of the Caribbean.
Nicaragua on the other hand is able to capture shipment after shipment after shipment of drugs week after week.
This project is a dream of mine, a crazy dream that I have had for 20 years and which none of our previous presidents have wanted to support – Violeta Chamorro didn’t want to support it, nor did Arnoldo Aleman, nor did Enrique Bolaños. It was not until the Sandinista Front of National Liberation (FSLN) took power with President Daniel Ortega at the head, that the Nicaraguan government has mustered up enough nationalistic spirit to invest a million dollars in a dredger and a million dollars to carry out the dredging project itself. So this is a project that belongs entirely to the Nicaraguan people.
It’s true, of course, that for centuries people have been talking about a canal, a gigantic work, but given our economic resources, the amount we have invested in this project is small. So small that we didn’t even clear the channel I mentioned with the dredger, we did it we our hands!
The investment has been small enough that Nicaragua can finance it. Very recently the National Assembly approved a further C$40 million, approximately US$2 million, to continue carrying out the project. Our Assembly, our budget.
TcS: So the total investment of the project in this first stage is going to be between US$2 million and US$4 million?
EP: It won’t be less that US$2 million, nor will it be more than US$4 million which is peanuts for any government! We’re not talking about US$10 or US$15 or US$40 million. We are talking about between US$2 and US$4 million. Pellas could fund that. Any of Nicaragua’s richest men could fund that.
TcS: It’s important to point that out in order to give the lie to the accusations of some sort of mega-project made possible by ALBA and Iran …
EP: That is part of an Israeli policy. An Israeli newspaper made that claim in an attempt to associate different situations and problems in the world today. They have their problems with Iran and they seem to want to involve Nicaragua. But we don’t have anything to do with that!
TcS: How much time do you think that the work of this first stage of the dredging project will take?
EP: All we are planning to do is go down between four and six feet, which is what is necessary to allow small boats and speedboats to navigate on that part of the river. So we are not talking about opening a major draught, we’re not carrying out major dredging work, it’s not an inter-oceanic canal!
I think that our work to encourage the great volumes of water flowing along the river during the rainy season to wash sediment out to sea will take one or two years.
If we are able to really take advantage of the times the river is fullest, I think it will take between one and two years to dredge [the river’s delta].
TcS: And when do you think the tourism industry will start feeling the benefits of the dredging project?
EP: This whole episode has resulted in so much discussion of the River San Juan – we have heard so many lies, so many calumnies and so much truth – that I think as of now lots of people are keen to go to the area and see the river for themselves! As a result I think we will start to see an increase in tourism in the area this Christmas.
TcS: How seriously do you take the Costa Rican government’s attempts to issue an arrest warrant in your name?
EP: I’ll be honest with you, I don’t take it seriously at all. I am not Costa Rican. I haven’t committed any crimes in Costa Rica. The border has not been demarcated so, under the auspices of the International Court of Justice, we follow the border definition outlined in the Alexander arbitral awards.
The Costa Rican government says it has informed Interpol about the arrest warrant. Well all I can say is, they should make it interplanetary if they like!
This is a typical move by the Costa Ricans. It demonstrates how frivolous the Costa Ricans are about the whole dispute. And anyway, I haven’t done anything that the Nicaraguan government hasn’t ordered me to do. So they should accuse the government!
I think the Costa Ricans are capable of going as far as accusing, condemning and issuing arrest warrants against our guys that used chainsaws to clear the trees.
The whole thing is ridiculous from whichever perspective you look at it.
TcS: As far as you are aware what are the specific business, commercial and financial interests that might be encouraging the Costa Rican government’s policy against the modest Nicaraguan project to recover navigation in the delta of the River San Juan?
EP: Elementary logic tells me that the industry most affected by this project is the narco-trafficking industry. So I think that it is the narco-traffickers that are the ones kicking up a fuss. And there are large economic interests behind the narco-trafficking industry in the region – there’s Colombia, Honduras and of course Costa Rica itself who are working together in an attempt to reduce our territorial sea.
On top of this there are large economic interests in Costa Rica that depend on the water of the River San Juan to make a lot of money. In Tortuguero, en Parismina, in Bajo Colorado, all using water from the River San Juan.
TcS: Are they Costa Rican companies or multinational companies?
EP: There are narco-companies money laundering income from narco-trafficking, there are Costa Rican companies and there are companies set up with international capital.
But there is another more significant reason behind all this and that is ALBA. Because when nations like Nicaragua want to unite and develop there are powerful international interests keen to undermine those efforts. Just look at what happened to Zelaya, for example, the President of Honduras ousted by a coup when everyone thought that in Latin America the era of coups was in the past.
When Latin America wants to be independent and sovereign, when we want to unite and become one nation, well, a leader like Allende is murdered, coups against presidents like Arbenz are provoked.
So it is those macro interests, including regional narco-trafficking interests, which are at play right now.
TcS: What is your take on the situation for Nicaraguan migrants living and working in Costa Rica?
EP: As part of this current dispute, the Costa Ricans have tried to humiliate Nicaragua by throwing all the favours they have done for us in our face. We, on the contrary, are a polite and honourable people, and we don’t feel the need to go on about favours we have done for other peoples.
Let me explain why I am talking to you in this fashion; no one should doubt that we have done Costa Rica a lot of big favours. In the Costa Rican liberation war duirng the time of Figueres, it was the Nicaraguans Edelberto Torres and Rosendo Arguello that supplied them with arms.
In that liberation war, which was a determining factor in Costa Rica becoming the nation it is today, thousands of Nicaraguans gave their lives.
What is more, according to Costa Rican government statistics, the 300,000 to 500,000 Nicaraguans working in Costa Rica today have generated US$25 billion for the Costa Rican economy over the last ten years.
So we are the ones that have facilitated the success of the Costa Rican banana industry and the cattle farming industry with our labour. We are the ones that make the Costa Rican coffee harvest and sugar cane harvest possible. It is thanks to Nicaraguan labourers that the construction industry in Costa Rica is so successful.
Nevertheless, the aristocracy that rules Costa Rica – these people from the central region of the country who discriminate against Costa Ricans from the northern and southern regions of the country, who look down on people from Guatuzo and Guanacaste in the north and from Golfito in the south – needless to say, this class of Costa Ricans, look at Nicaraguans, Salvadorans, Hondurans and Guatemalans with contempt.
The Costa Rican aristocracy don’t think of themselves as our Central Americans brothers. They believe they are Swiss, they think they are European.
Over the last few days the Costa Rican security minister demonstrates this attitude, he referred to us as “the ones from the north.” But we have never ever referred to the Costa Ricans as “the ones from the south.” We call them our Costa Rican brothers.
TcS: What effect do you think that this dispute is going to have on the possibilities of strengthening the Central American integration process?
EP: I have faith in the peoples of Central America. I have faith that one day a sector of Costa Rican society that looks on the rest of Central America as their brothers will take power in Costa Rica. This sector will understand that, divided, Central America has had it, and that in order to realize our potential we must unite.
I think that, right now, dialogue is not an easily achievable objective, but there will come a time when we are able to dialogue as brothers. So, I think in the future, Central America integration will be possible.
When, over the next five, ten or fifteen years, Nicaragua is able to overcome the current level of poverty in which we find ourselves, then Costa Rica will start to respect us.